Recently I've had a couple of conversations that I feel I need to address. One on circumcision and one on women pastors.
Now, alot of people have different opinions on circumcision. Some do it cause they want son to look like daddy, or because the Bible says to do it, some do it for cleanliness, and some do it cause thats what their family did. Then there are those who dont do it. Its a part of your son and he's missing out when you take the foreskin. Personally, I dont like this reason cause Im of the opinion, how will you miss it if you didnt know it was there? Silly I know. But thats how I think. Some dont do it cause they dont want to hurt or torture their son at such a young age. Now why would I really need to think about this or worry about it. Well one, I think Im having a boy, two, its something I've thought about how I feel on and have come to a decision. First off, Im ok with circumcision. For a couple of reason, one-my husband is my spiritual leader, the head of my household. If he wants it, then I will do it, no questions asked. Two-it must not be that bad if God actually commanded his people to do it. Doesnt matter the reason, point is, God commanded it so really must not be a horrible thing. Now dont get me wrong, Im not gonna do it cause the Bible says I have to. But Im not against it cause God did command it. Now, Ive told my husband that if he wants to circumcise our son, I have no problem with that. And yes I have done the research. I know what they do when they take your son at such a young age. Which is why I've asked my husband to wait till our son is 2 before we circumcise him. Mostly cause I know for a fact they will use numbing *cant think of name* medicine then as he will be old enough. But here's my reasoning for doing it, its cleaner. Im terrified that if I have a son I wont clean him up completely and then he will get an infection and then we will have problems. Its a peace of mind for me. I also dont have to worry when he's going potty himself whether or not he's cleaning himself properly. I will have enough to worry about as a mother that I dont need to add something else. It will not be done till our child is 2 but it will be done. Its cleaner, and to be honest, thats a good enough reason for me. I do not think that those who dont like circumcision are wrong in their beliefs, just wrong in how they have presented them to me and made me feel like I was a horrible person for wanting to get it done. And for those who do want to do it are wrong as well beause they think people who dont get it done are going against God and have stupid reasons. Thats a wrong attitude. Its not commanded by God anymore. Its basically a personal decision on what you and your spouse has decided. But whatever you decide, make sure you dont judge others who dont agree with it. Cause really, I hate being told how to think and what to believe. Im an adult and have been making my own decisions for awhile now. Tell me your opinion, and respect mine.
Now this next topic is a hard one for me. I recently had a conversation with a friend who said that when they hear a woman preacher talking, they feel God is telling them its wrong, and not what God wanted. All because in 1 Timothy 2:12, PAUL said, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over man; she must be silent." Im a big believer in the fact that Paul said it not God. First off, God would be contradicting himself because God placed Deborah in leadership over Isreal. She was a judge. Someone all people trusted to come to. Plus theres the pastor of my moms church. Since she became a pastor at moms church, the church has grown, allowed the Holy Spirit to really be a part of the service, and I believe, her and the church has been blessed tremendously! I've seen good and bad male and female pastors. I believe God calls ALL regardless of the gender to become leaders and pastors and teachers and whatever else you can think of for a reason. To do his work, to bring people to God, to work through them. I believe Paul was talking when he said this, I do not believe he was talking for God and I strongly believe God calls women all the time. For isntance, my mom teaches sunday school. Men and women. Shes even preached in church when the pastor was on vacation or sick or had family things to deal with. She told me the other day that she use to dream at night sermons and lessons all the time. She never did anything about it till recently and said since then the dreams have stopped. She said she felt called by God and was annoyed with the dreams cause they wouldnt go away and they were constantly on her mind. Till she did what God wanted her to do. Now her class is full of people who are thristy for Gods word and what he has to say, what the Bible has to say. People are touched by her sermons and her prayers that she reads weekly and if you ask her where she got them, she will tell you they came from God. In fact last sunday, she was arguing with God over the prayer for that week beacuse she wasnt sure its what she should say and God kept saying otherwise and even though she was uneasy about, she was obiedent to God and was blessed because of it. It was a good prayer and touched the people in church.
I just named two women I know for a fact God has called to positions of leadership and authority. And then I have people tell me when they hear a woman teach that God is telling them that its wrong and not what God had planned. Im sorry but I think thats crap. I think most people dont listen to God. Dont pay attention. They were taught one way and arent willing to have an open mind. Think outside the box. Realize that God can do anything, has done anything, and calls ALL kinds of people to positions of teaching, authority, leadership. Men and women. Its not evil, its not against God, its just different. Pray about it seriosly, have an open mind about it and really listen to what God is saying! You might be surprised with God's response.
15 comments:
I haven't studied this in detail, but I've read about it some... I know that the Greek word for authority in that verse is not the same word used elsewhere in Scripture for the authority of a pastor over his congregation or a father over his family; the word refers to a negative abusive type of authority. Someone suggested "I do not permit a woman to dominate over a man" might be a better translation. Paul was probably writing about a particular cultural situation and not making a general assumption about gender roles.
Ahh yes the age old subject of circumcision.
Personally it isn't a spiritual decision. It is neither here no there in the NT. However it is a personal matter to me.
We researched and checked out EVERY possible avenue of information because we wanted to do what was best for our son. Even the doctors that we talked to said it was unnecessary and too invasive for a child.
These are just a few of my reasons-
1.-It isn't my penis. It is my son's most private part of his body and therefore it isn't my place to decide what parts of it should be removed.
2. The foreskin serves a purpose. It is filled with hundreds of thousands of nerve endings that aid in sexual pleasure as well as protection against friction during intercourse. It is also crucial in climax and lubrication. If he "wont know the difference" if he never had it, they why even worry about taking it?
3. A dirty penis is a dirty penis. Circumcised or not, you can never guarantee that it will be cleaned properly. And while we as mothers have a lot of things to be concerned about, proper genital cleanliness is dad's responsibility to teach.
Kids can get tonsillitis @ some stage in their lives and need their tonsils out, so if were worried about infection, perhaps we should remove those too. Or what "if" they get appendicitis--let's remove their appendix.
I don't like disagree with people because they choose to circumcise their sons. I think more about the children and their rights. It is their body. It is an unnecessary procedure that "may" protect them.
It is illegal to even consider taking a woman's clitoral hood (this is the exact same piece of skin as the male foreskin & the procedure is different that genital mutilation done in other countries) So why should it be legal to do it to boys.
I just think they are entitled to that choice when they are old enough to understand.
We're going to have our son circumcised. Laura's (being a pediatric/neonatal nurse, she has lots of first hand knowledge on the subject) informs me that non-circumcised men have a much higher risk of infection, and that the chances of contracting hiv are higher (if they have sex with someone who has hiv .. they shouldn't in the first place, but there you go). The argument that men enjoy sex less without the foreskin is a myth. There is no rock solid research on the subject and no consensus among the medical community. Having a foreskin also greatly increases the chance that your son will get something stuck in there, regardless of well you try and keep it clean.
I'd do it right away, after he's born. Your son will NOT remember it at all, and the chances of a baby fiddling with it are very small. The same can't be said about a two year old boy. It takes 4-6 weeks to recover from the procedure. I wouldn't want a two year old running around with a sore man-cannon for that long.
As for being an adult and don't want to be told what to think, kudos for making that stand. There are plenty of people out there who don't have the will or conviction to have their own opinion, or take the time to formulate them.
But an adult also should know that even though they have a opinion and are capable of reason, they aren't the only person to have ever thought on a particular subject. A wise adult should be willing to consider the opinion of others and weigh it accordingly. To discard such opinions or advice out of hand is the opposite of rationality.
"Your son will NOT remember it at all"
So it should be ok to burn him with a hot iron because at that age he "will NOT remember it at all". I don't think so. And hows the rest of the western (Christian) world surviving with out circumcision? They have less stds than the USA. So much for "it prevents..."
Our son slept through his circumcision (I think he was a day old). I can assure you, it wouldn't have been that way had we waited until he was 2.
he will still sleep through it at two, they will put him out. I know this cause my nephew had his done and they put him out!
If you ARE definitely going to circumcise, why wait until he's two??
http://www.circinfo.net/risks_in_adults_and_older_children.html
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"Your son will NOT remember it at all"
So it should be ok to burn him with a hot iron because at that age he "will NOT remember it at all". I don't think so. And hows the rest of the western (Christian) world surviving with out circumcision? They have less stds than the USA. So much for "it prevents..."
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Comparing a safe, common medical procedure to abuse isn't the same at all.
because I know they will put him out which I can handle. Knowing they dont do anything when they are a baby makes me cringe. Its hard to allow someone to hurt my child whether they remember or not. I couldnt stand it when my neice at 4 months old had to get shots in her leg. It was hard on me.
They don't put baby's out, because they don't feel it. Seriously, they sleep right through it, and they heal from it MUCH faster than an older boy will. They have little to no sensation there at that age, which will certainly not be true when they are two years old.
From what I'm told, they don't always sedate the children that are older either. They usually do the procedure while they are awake with a local anesthetic.
You should really talk to your doctor about this. He can firmly answer your question about this better than we can. If you're using a duela, don't listen to her. They are there for assistance and letting you know when you can make your opinions known, but they aren't medical professionals.
I don't think the emotional impact on YOU is going to get better as the child gets older.
By two years old your baby will cease to be an eating/pooping machine, and will have a personality and may even be speaking. They won't be able to understand why the procedure is needed, only that it doesn't sound fun (because NO procedure is fun, ever, at any age.)
Children at that age are terrified of thermometers that you put under their arm pits. In the DR during clinics, I HATE dealing with toddlers because they fight with you on everything. Baby's are great .. they just sleep right through everything.
They don't always use sedation for that type of procedure (as in "putting a child under/out"). For that type of procedure, they won't use sedation unless absolutely necessary. Typically kids that require sedation for a non-invasive procedure, such as circumcision, being catheterized etc, are kids that are out of control and won't hold still. Sedation has risks, that's why it isn't a given... something to consider anyway. Babies don’t require sedation or even local anesthetics because they are usually unaware that anything is even going on, meaning it isn’t torture. You should talk to your MD. They will inform you of risks and benefits to waiting.
Our youngest is not circumcised because he was not ours to do that to and the state will not do it.
It has not ever been a problem to keep him clean and he is 1 1/2...
For those of you who have had a child sleep "right through" their circumcision, God bless you because I know tons and TONS of women who watched their baby get circumcised while they wailed their lungs out. They then regretted it afterwards and felt HORRIBLE guilt for putting their child through such torture.
MB, I would strongly urge you to research as MUCH as you possibly can. Sedation has major risks @ 2 and the risk of infection at that age is much higher. My other suggestion is to google a few videos and have a real view on how it gets done. No matter the age, it is a painful, invasive and unnecessary procedure.
We had Zion circumsized when he was one day old. Sebastian was adopted when he was about 14 and the orphanage circumsized all the boys right before they came to the states! So we had Zi circumsized when he was little so he woundn't feel such awful pain later on!
I can't fathom "delaying pain" especially when it is unnecessary. Why bother doing something so painful when it isn't medically necessary?
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